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 My Problem With Mass Effect

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Sureshot
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PostSubject: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sat Feb 12, 2011 8:52 pm

Okay, so I'm fully aware I'm going to get shot with starting a thread with such a horrible title but I need to get something off my chest, so you're gonna have to endure my ludicrous claims if you want to get through this post.

So, my opinion.... I don't think Mass Effect is nearly as good a game as people make it out to be. *awaits shooting*

Before you all shower me with stones I'd just like to add that I think everything about the game is fantastic (contradictory huh?). The setting and story are without a doubt flawless and I'm a BioWare fanboi believe me. I'm lucky enough to be an old fart that got addicfed to Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 and I agree that they are THE finest games developers out there.

My minor problem as it were was that I was expecting KotOR in a new light and quite frankly, It's not. KotOR had cut scenes with characters that I absolutely adore to this very day. Mass Effect on the other hand, doesn't. They're almost generic Sci-Fi cardboard cutout characters of scrapped sci-fi series like Earth: Final Conflict and Babylon: 5, both of which I wholly detest.

I also feel that you're generally overplugged with useless information from characters that prooves neither useful or informative and considering the video cut scenes from Mass Effect generally last a bit longer than that of KotOR, the game can start to drag and loose the interest of the player. I believe there is a fine line line between immersiveness and overkill and sadly I feel Mass Effect falls into the latter.

I'm fully aware I'm probably on my own here but I feel the difference between the gameplay of KotOR and Mass Effect are worlds apart, both in idea and execution. For some of you I can imagine that Shepard and co. are best friends to your imaginations but seriously compared to characters like Juhanni, Mission, Calo Nord and Bastilla they have a lot to live up too.

Gameplay wise I think it plays "ok" but I just don't share the excitement that others have for it. Am I Alone or about to die through my blasphemic remarks?

p.s. On the plus side it still has the best soundtrack I've ever heard!

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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:04 pm

Heres what i hate about ME most of it is about ME2

Biotics are lame might as well just call them "Not the force" i get it, its hard to see jedi games and not want to make a game where your people do the same thing but honestly if they hadn't made kotor they would have been sued. In ME2 they sacrificed the story to make the game run like mainstream shooters, not to mention the addition of clips - oh its heat sink with new technology the guns heat more quickly so we just expel the part of the weapon that heats up, oh so you mean the whole barrel and fireing chamber of the weapon, no its just some small thing that somehow absorbs all of the heat from the barrel and firing chamber. Next they took out everything that made it unique from other shooters, ammo type weapon base armor weaves and plates and just made them some generic talent that i have to waste points on - thanks bioware! Another thing is that i think the ME2 biotics were terrible i dont know how anyone likes them or finds it acceptable that a class that had 8-12 powers now has what like 3? In the second ME they also stripped away any limited character customization - i remember watching a video where an artist said "Oh yeah i work on so many helms that sometimes i see them in my dreams" really artist 03 cause in game i saw 1 different type of armor for each slot then all the customization comes from colors. Oh wait you can get some in the dlc! yeah no i payed full price for a full game i want full content i don't care if it only costs $5 to get new things i think that whole bs factory is a cancer for gaming realease the game at full price it better have full content not some dlc that happens to come out 1 month later after you fed me this bs and streight LIED about what was in it gj maybe you can collab on fable 4 plus the characters for 2 are just so aweful oh jacob doesn't trust the man miranda has daddy issues and jack is a rebel man! don't label her she wont go in your box she refuses it! thank god they put batman into the game, and i could forgive that if your love interest wasn't so 2d oh i don't like you anymore shep you left me for 2 years - No i was dead for two years, i'm sorry i didn't contact you while i was dead turns out you can't talk when your dead, i'm not sure what i was thinking after i died saving you - oh thats right i was thinking MAN IM REALLY DEAD but you got a promotion right? i guess times are hard everywhere. Plus the 3rd one is coming out i can't wait for the secret info that says it will have a multiplayer that way i can play halo effect honestly it feels like they really worked hard on the first and barely anyone baught it so they got michael bay for the second. I can't wait for the council to not believe me again for me to tell them whats happening again and for shepard to solo another 12 reapers so that in the 4th they'll tell me they think i might be onto something but they can't allocate any forces to me with dlc content where shepard tells the council that the sky is blue and the grass is green just to have them leap over their desk to kick shepard in the face and beat him to death on the ground. and all that asside i think the story is great and has potential but i mean seriously there is some stuff that just makes me scream "YEAH OK!" the moment its said or done. Its like i want it to be more than just a SW clone but honestly sometimes its hard to believe thats its not just sw with a different story and sans lightsabers
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:42 pm

*BLEEP!* hell Random cheers! That's more detailed than I expected as a reply but fair play mate! I can't comment on ME2 because I've still yet to download it from STEAM but I hope it's btter than the original which to be fair is a "good" game but just not the legendary epic adventure I hoped it would be.

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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 1:28 am

the first is leaps and bounds better the only good thing about the second is they beefed the gun combat nerfed biotics added clips took out weapon customization took out armor customization made characters more shallow made plot twists more cliche made one liners cornier made a less evolved story and dialogue - to be fair though they added alot more pointless crap that i don't care about. They made garus and tali more important made me hate ashley/kaidan, and tali, wrex is still a pro and its a sad state of affairs when its the krogan who comes out smelling like roses.

The way i feel is its an ok game but compared to what i was expecting from ME, ME2 is the most worthless piece of garbage and a terrible let down and after hearing about the 3rd one coming out so soon i'm sure it will be even worse. I think alot of my frustrations come from mechanics and the story structure of the game but i mean i still think its a great concept and a great game but given the stagnant state of rpgs i mean honestly you only have to give a 5% effort to make a B+ rpg anymore. Games are starting to get attention similar to movies and because of that their quality is going to drop even more, give it ten years and i'm sure core gamers will be so sick of the crap that spews out that we'll all give up games in general
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:54 am

I'm feeling very outnumbered here since Mass Effect 2 must be the game that I've spent the most time on ever and I feel for the right reasons Very Happy

I totally disagree on the characters front. Probably since I've never seen many other Sci-Fis before this to make connections but I can remember each one of them clearly. Sure there are characters who I don't relate to but I think they're almost all a story powerhouse (except Jacob who's a bog standard soldier and maybe Kaiden who apart from his training doesn't have much going for him). Think Garrus, just a disgruntled cop? Not so, his family pressures and race's values have forced him down a path that he doesn't want. That and his inexperience allow you to mould him into the character you want.

I definately think that gameplay comes second to the RPG elements and I'm completely fine with that. Personally, I prefer it that way, and the gameplay is still good especially when it makes me feel like a bad@$$ cleaving through a group of six enemies in less than a minute on hard.
As for immersion, I suppose we all have different levels. The sciences behind the game are a lot more plausable than some of the other sci-fis out there (like Star Wars, it has to be said) and there's always nice news bites in lifts or at terminals making it feel like there's a larger universe out there.

If you're going to argue about the parallels between the force and biotics then you're going to have to throw every other psychic power around into the mix as well. What about 40k's warp powers? Fable's force spells? Bioshock's plasmid powers? Hell, even Psyconauts. If things didn't take or use ideas from others then the world would be a lot more boring.

And yes, things have been simplified, but for the better I feel. Before I have to spend at least 5-10 minutes making sure that everyone had the best gear and that my Shep had even better. Most of it looked the same anyway apart from colour hues. If they made us do the same with ME2 with all the new guys, then I'd be looking at 30 minutes of my life gone every other level.
And for other customisation, there's 4 different parts for head, arms, shoulders, legs and chest (not including DLC). Add that to the colour customisation with patterns and the like and yeah, I'd say it's much better than ME1.

And finally, since I've written far too much, there are implausable story changes, like with the thermal clips. But have you ever not seen such implausablility with other things? Boba Fett was obviously made to be killed off in Return of the Jedi but since he was so popular they threw in that he escaped a long digestion cycle off-camera or what about how Stormtroopers took down rebel soldiers with brutal efficiency in the New Hope but just can't seem to take down at least one unarmoured person?


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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 3:21 am

For me the first one is a pretty epic game I've played it tons of times and love it now, that said I do agree with some of your crits, there is alot of information in there and some of the species are very specific, Krogans are big angry brutes that always want to fight and see honour in killing strong adversarys, the smaller weaker ones are scientists (mostly) and the Asari are wise intelligent elders. And god are all the humans one dimensional aholes every human compaion save Cardo Onasi (?) oh and jack! is just *BLEEP!*, the first two were whining unappealing cold motivationless blank slates, the next lot lol Miranda was even colder and more emotionless but had bewbs and an *BLEEP!* so large it distracted you from the incredible battles in space, and the other was generic black character with no personality put in there for demographic reasons, seriously black people can have interesting personalities too!
Spoiler:
 

lol ive lost my train of thought but despite the flaws it still rocks Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:12 am

What I hate in ME 1 and what bored me straight away of replaying it, is those explorations scenes in the hyper-duper tank. Now what bores me of replaying ME2 is that I'd have to go through ME1 again and make different choices... Besides that I can't see much to criticise.

Now for your own information, I can't help but to dislike kotor1. All this lovely and cute glow-stick handlers bores me straight away.

As for the "carboard character", all characters belongs to the same archetypes. Adaptation of those is the essence and principle.
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 6:23 am

My big thing is that there are only female humans and asari that ever appear in the game - gl turians solarians at least the krogans have a flimsy cover story as for the characters it’s not about detail 1 and 2 it’s just that they're premise is so 2d. I know that they're 2d characters because I spent three years of my life studying literature.

Miranda: Typical spoiled little brat that’s been given everything and has daddy issues because of it. She ran away and joined the illusive man and stays because hes so much older and has become the father she wanted.
Jacob: This guy is so stereotypical its borderline racist, frankly I’m surprised that he didn’t die first. He’s your typical been around the block soldier that saw a single cover up lost his nerve and now fights for terrorists because the alliance didn’t give him his due glory. They can say he honestly believes in Cerberus but frankly there is no way that if he couldn’t handle alliance cover ups he’d be able to deal with Cerberus ones.
Mordin: This is one of the rare characters in ME2 that actually has depth and it’s because of that, that his details actually add to the character and make him more likeable.
Garrus: Fallen cop want to know more about his character type watch any dark cop movie and instead of the main character’s name just insert Garrus.
Tali: one would think she’s multi dimensional but it’s all just a clever trick! You see she’s actually just 2 generic char types the female nerd and the new age princess. She just spits out technical jargon or how she needs to help her people
Grunt: grunt is just a clone (by clone I mean his character type not him physically Razz thought that needed to be said because he is a tube krogan) of wrex who actually has character but because he is a clone of wrex’s character he has none of his own and is just filler.
Thane: Honestly I love thane but just because I like him doesn’t make him 3d. The moment he says “I’m dying” if it were any game but mass effect I would have thrown the disc out of the window and my neighbors would have been treated to the muffled sound of my cursing for 30 minutes I mean it feels like someone at bioware really like assassin’s creed and played it a bit too much while me2 was in development. Hes just the generic silent rogue with strong religious conviction.
Jack: Honestly I hated jack so maybe this is a little bias just like how I loved mordin and gave him a good revue. When I look at jack I see the goth kids from south park sure your childhood was messed up and such but honestly who cares just because you’re normally emotionally cut off then are sad because you went back to the lab doesn’t really matter to me. She has the typical plug I’m different I have tattoos shave my head and swear cause that’s not what ladies do.
Legion: of course he’s 2d he’s just a robot

As for customization I meant how you could add 3 different components for weapons and armor when your level was high enough. The different hues were silly and just a lazy way of pretending you have more armor than you do. Also I don’t consider changing the color of something as customization in my mind its just a feature that should be stock in all games the fact that a lot of games are too lazy to put it in doesn’t mean it’s a favor to us. After all if you own a car you can change its color irl it doesn’t mean you tell people you have 8 cars. Also about the force powers thing I actually do lump all of those types of mechanics together, to me it’s all magic and generally I give it a grade based on how versatile it is to dungeons and dragons.

I’m not saying I don’t like the game I’m just saying compared to the original mass effect ME2 was a massive let down but its still a C with the original coming in at a B+ again that’s not saying much in terms of the market which I weight at a D+ meaning that if I had an rpg that I rated an A+ it would only be out of a D+ unless it just blew me away by so far that I had to rate it above the entire genre as a whole
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:09 am

I'd put ME on a par with KOTOR, personally. The 2nd game, while excellent is still a sequel so frankly it doesn't need to work so hard. All the story, characters, location, lore, ambience and general coolness of the first one was already in place so if they wanted to make it 'as good' they should have thrown in more content. ME2 is better in a mechanical sense; the combat is better and the way you progress with your character is more fluid but really it was just riding off the success of the first one.

Its not often that I disagree with Sureshot but I have to say I thought the characters were as interesting and detailed (if not moreso) than many of the KOTOR characters (and I love KOTOR to pieces so I say that with some real honesty). For the first time in a computer game there was not a single character I didn't like, each has levels of complexity that are often only hinted at rather than rammed down your throat and the follow-up novels really add to the whole saga that is ME. I wait for the 3rd installment with the same vigour I do for SWTOR.

@ Sureshot: If you thought ME lacked cutscenes (you've seen the end, right? lol) I'd say get playing ME2 asap - its got way more than the original.....but the load times are often incredibly slow!

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Babylon: 5, both of which I wholly detest
Ah, proof that you're not infalible at last! I knew there had to be a flaw in your programming somewhere - B5 is excellent (except Legend of the Rangers and Crusade both of which sucked monkey balls Very Happy )

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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:33 am

ME2 is (imo) far better than ME1.

As for Babylon5. It's awesome! The movies made out of this (or the few I managed to find) are not as brilliant as the serie. It's far more intersting, cool and epic than Star Wars (that is if we consider only the movies and not the EU) so Babylon5 FTW!!!
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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:42 am

Caryington wrote:

As for Babylon5. It's awesome! The movies made out of this (or the few I managed to find) are not as brilliant as the serie. It's far more intersting, cool and epic than Star Wars (that is if we consider only the movies and not the EU) so Babylon5 FTW!!!

Woah careful there mate, you'll have lasers pointed at your head Razz B5 the series really is excellent (if watched from beginning to end) and its a real Sci Fi Space Opera.

As for the ME / ME2 comments I'd have to wrap up my words on the subject with this:

In my opinion the Mass Effect universe is a well realised, deep and engaging place with plenty of scope for expansion and progression and is the nearest the new Millenium has to its version of the Star Wars and Star Trek franchises - BioWare knew exactly what they were doing when they decided to dominate the computer-games market. In the 80s and 90s films were THE way to reach the masses. In the 2000's + its the internet and video gaming. It wouldn't suprise me in the slightest to find Commander Shepard would become as well known a name as Han Solo in the next 10-15 years.

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PostSubject: Re: My Problem With Mass Effect   Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:59 am

Lunarwolf wrote:
Woah careful there mate, you'll have lasers pointed at your head Razz B5 the series really is excellent (if watched from beginning to end) and its a real Sci Fi Space Opera.
Excuse my French, milord! Laughing

This was a nicely-executed mastermind plan to use my newly acquired expression Razz You fell in my trap, Mr Dubz! I am too aw...

*gets shot down* Facepalm

EDIT: Yet B5 is astonishingly awesome and amazing!
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