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 Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild

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Sureshot
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PostSubject: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:31 am

Well as much as I did love this Friday's update, I was pretty appalled to see that classes may well be faction specific. This can't be a good thing for our guild. I've stated the reasons below:

  • If the classes are faction specific there's a good chance that some of our characters on't be allowed to play in the same guild.

  • One of the main reasons I want to play this game is because, as BioWare so eloquently put it, I have a 'Bounty Hunter fantasy'. Now if I have to play one on the Sith side, where does that leave for example Nex? Who has his heart set on playing a Jedi.

  • I'm not sure where to recruit now either as the last update has thrown me completely. I'm thinking of starting another recruitment thread in the Sith Empire section as well, but where does that leave the players that want to play for the Republic? Eventually some members are gonna get p***** off and leave because either way someone is going to be unhappy about the decision made for the guild.

  • Faction specific could also mean that some people won't be able to visit some of their favourite planets. For example if I'm forced to play in teh Sith Empire, I may not be able to form the guild base on Coruscant as it's Republic aligned.

I know this may seem like a doom & gloom post, but the suggested idea that classes may be faction specific may actually cause a lot of problems within our great little guild. We've all worked pretty hard to get it off the ground and I will be so annoyed if BioWare go and mess things up even before the games started. Nothing I can do about it I know, but as guild leader I have to consider these things.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:50 am

Well Those are good concerns BUT...

First of all i don't think star wars factions will be as separated as in usual mmos. Its just speculation but... How do you think they'll do it? We all speak basic... (except maybe wookiees and some other races). And why the hell wouldn't someone be allowed into the republic capitol? For example a bounty hunter (even if they are sith) why would he be banned from the republic? O.o How would they recognize him? That wouldn't make sense.

Second of all. I'm still a firm believer in Mirror classes. That said if you have a bounty hunter on one side you'll have an equivalent of that class on the other... Jedi/Sith kind of way...

Anyway... All i want to say is that its FAR to early to say about anything... Far to little info out there to speculate even. Still if they ban planets for factions like that or somehow separate the people into sith /republic without any real means of interacting (like usual mmos) it'll be quite stupid for a SW world...


Last edited by Aliendra on Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:03 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 11:58 am

Aliendra wrote:
Well Those are good concerns BUT...

And why the hell wouldn't someone be allowed into the republic capitol? For example a bounty hunter (even if they are sith) why would he be banned from the republic? O.o How would they recognize him? That wouldn't make sense.

One good example is to look at WAR. Your character couldn't go into the the rival factions main city without being attacked. I agree it's a dumb idea for Star Wars but it has been implemented before.

Quote :
Second of all. I'm still a firm believer in Mirror classes. That said if you have a bounty hunter on one side you'll have an equivalent of that class on the other... Jedi/Sith kind of way...

I like mirror classes too but as I say my dream is to play a Bounty Hunter. If they give us something like a Republic Special Forces type character as a mirror class I personally would't be interested in playing it.

Quote :
Anyway... All i want to say is that its FAR to early to say about anything... Far to little info out there to speculate even. Still if they ban planets for factions like that or somehow separate the people into sith republic it'll be quite stupid in a SW world...

Couldn't agree more, but as you say lets hold our breath and wait and see. I only really brought up the topic because it is something that could happen and I want people to be prepared. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:09 pm

As i said when i joined GTC. Its to early to say anything about the game and making a guild based on an idea is a risk we are all taking here. Bioware can make all our work futile in just one update and we can't blame them. Their not revealing all the info and we have to live on the scraps that they give us. You didn't know that?

We have to live with that whatever you like it or not. Thats the risks with making a guild so early in game..

And about WAR. Are you frigging kidding me?Smile Warhammer has IRONED out faction for many of tens of years now that NEVER talk to each other. Its logical that the chaos chosen will be hated by humans or a greenskin will be hated by dwarves... There a re mutations to identify who is who in the warhammer world. Ones that cannot be masked easily.

SW world is something completely different! Everyone talks the same language, everyone looks the same, whenever he is sith or republic. And i'm sure most traders, smugglers, bounty hunters in that world don't really care for sides. Most people don't probably care much either. The Sith won't kill you on sight... They are not barbarians... There is a hell of a world of difference between SW and WAR,WoW and those type of games. Think of it more as AoC type of factions. That would make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 12:20 pm

Quote :
There is a hell of a world of difference between SW and WAR,WoW and those type of games. Think of it more as AoC type of factions. That would make sense.

Yup I mentioned that, what I'm saying is that there is a possibilty that it could happen. After all I think one of the devs said themselves that they were interested in what WAR were doing with factions and PvP in their game. We simply can't rule anything out.

Quote :
As i said when i joined GTC. Its to early to say anything about the game and making a guild based on an idea is a risk we are all taking here. Bioware can make all our work futile in just one update and we can't blame them. Their not revealing all the info and we have to live on the scraps that they give us. You didn't know that?

Of course I knew that! My point was to get across to people that it's a possibilty as I say, and the main point of the post is to make sure that members were prepared. There's nothing worse than the s*** hitting the fan, when people are disgruntled about a guilds actions.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:00 pm

A reasonable and significant qualm, this. It will cause some kind of issue--large or small--for us in some way when the time comes.

However it turns out, Sith Empire or Galactic Republic, I'll go wherever the guild goes.

It's a real shame that there's no neutral faction...
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:02 pm

Black Heart wrote:
A reasonable and significant qualm, this. It will cause some kind of issue--large or small--for us in some way when the time comes.

However it turns out, Sith Empire or Galactic Republic, I'll go wherever the guild goes.

It's a real shame that there's no neutral faction...

Aye, my thoughts exactly. Ah well we'll just have to wait and see I guess.

Oh and cheers for the support. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 1:11 pm

Personally, as worrying as this information might initially be, I'm not that concerned.

Its possible this entire guild might have to "turn sith".

Its also possible that we'll have to alter our 'official' titles if we play on the republic side (I.E: be a Soldier class, but rp as a Bounty Hunter).

However it is VERY possible that we have a strong enough Guild structure in the making that we will adapt and survive. As has been said, we wont really know what the score is till beta. but we'll still be us and I think we'll still be rockin'
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 3:58 pm

I'm not too worried. I'm sure we can all adapt to the game once we find out full info. While it would be a bit disappointing to have some classes seperated to different sides, I'm confident we are good enough at RPing to find a way around it.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Sun Mar 22, 2009 4:45 pm

Has anyone else seen this?

SeanDahlberg wrote:
Originally Posted by SeanDahlberg
A Miscellania of Tidbits of Information, Quotes, Memories and What-nots of Star Wars: The Old Republic.

  • The Ruins of Kaleth on Tython date back more than 23,000 years.

  • Bounty Hunters who chose to follow government regulations and pursued criminals were sometimes revered as heroes.

Now why on earth has Sean posted that second 'did you know'? Its almost as if he could be suggesting that BH's are available for the Republic! If he's not then thats just a REALLY nasty tease. Dammit BioWare are really annoying me with their secrecy now. It's gone beyond a joke! Twisted Evil
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:32 am

Well, i would be slightly annoyed if they did make it so class's are race spesific. but it would not stop me from playing it, and i would follow the guild if we had to "go sith" as some one put it.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 2:27 am

Seriously speaking i can RP my characters on both sides anyway...Smile

What was once galactic empire now is sith and its just in what? A few years? Months? Every character should be transferable RP wise...
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:45 am

Well if it does turn out that way it doesn't matter anyway, because RP wise we're neutral. Could make for interesting RP if we sold our skills to the highest bidder, which just happened to be the Sith. It's just the class issue that could be the problem really.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:39 am

Didnt I mention? I was Sith all along! mwhahahahahaha! *runs*
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:06 am

Lunarwolf wrote:
Didnt I mention? I was Sith all along! mwhahahahahaha! *runs*

So YOU'RE Darth Carealot?!!! I friggin' knew it! Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:15 am

*Le Gasp!* How evil!
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:48 am

This all doesn't bear directly on my Redwatch character concept. Being a smuggler I can happily play a trader class and rp the shady side. Besides, they've got the Han Solo archetype to follow so I can't see smugglers disallowed for the Republic.

Where it does concern me is what it means for this guild. Even if there are Republic alternatives to bounty hunters there won't be for hit men and assassins. Besides, republic bounty hunter alts won't have the cool look of 'proper' bounty hunters nor the class specific skills/gadgetry I'd imagine. Ergo - the core class of the guild might want to "go sith" leaving us neutral/good players weepily waving our hankies in farewell.

Maybe a poll?

Thanks again BioWare for leaving us all in limbo.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 5:59 am

Redwatch wrote:
This all doesn't bear directly on my Redwatch character concept. Being a smuggler I can happily play a trader class and rp the shady side. Besides, they've got the Han Solo archetype to follow so I can't see smugglers disallowed for the Republic.

Actually I've been thinking about this possible Smuggler class and it seems like a pretty weird choice to put on the Republic side. Let's have a look at it from the movies perspective. First off a Smuggler's activities was considered illegal by the Empire and they only kept out of the way of 'Imperial activity' because during the timeline of the original trilogy, the Empire were almost like law enforcement. Now if you set this back to the Old Republic time period wouldn't the Galactic Republic be the law? Therefore what would the point be of having a Smuggler class that was on the side of the people he was trying to avoid?

Obviously, we could also say that Han Solo was part of the rebellion, but I think he was a rare exception and it took Luke & Leia to convince him to fight for them . Smugglers like Bounty Hunters more often than not played it by thier own rules. Game mechanics wise it would make sense to put the Bounty Hunter & Smuggler on seperate factions, as one would more than likely be hunting or avoiding the other. Still, the only way I can see this working is if you put them on both factions.

Quote :
Where it does concern me is what it means for this guild. Even if there are Republic alternatives to bounty hunters there won't be for hit men and assassins. Besides, republic bounty hunter alts won't have the cool look of 'proper' bounty hunters nor the class specific skills/gadgetry I'd imagine. Ergo - the core class of the guild might want to "go sith" leaving us neutral/good players weepily waving our hankies in farewell.

Maybe a poll?

Thanks again BioWare for leaving us all in limbo.

Well this is the problem, and it's why I started the thread in the first place. I mean for all intensive purposes we are a neutral guild but if these stupid faction specific classes come into play, we could run into problems. I mean how the hell are they going to find a suitable mirror class for example a Republican Smuggler or a Sith Bounty Hunter for that matter? I can't see them doing it personally and I hate to say it but this may well be the first game-breaker for me if it's implemented. If they're limiting us this early on what are they going to be like with story arcs, character customization, crafting etc, etc....?

Obviously the only advantage to this is that we can choose our alignment, so if we were to say "turn Sith" (I use that term lightly as we are neutral) some of us could be the good guys in the bad place, and of course vice-versa.

As for a poll I think for now its just best to wait to see what classes are revealed. We are still at the concept stage so anything is possible.

I agree though as guild leader this has got me very concerned. pale
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 6:44 am

Sureshot wrote:
the Galactic Republic [would] be the law... Therefore what would the point be of having a Smuggler class that was on the side of the people he was trying to avoid?

Because I see smugglers as providing the citizenry things governments don't want them to have. There will always be contraband under any law enforcement body. There's even the smuggling of legal goods to avoid tax. I don't see any confilct in enjoying the security and freedoms of a society and disagreeing with certain government policies regarding prohibited/controlled materiel.

Sureshot wrote:
If they're limiting us this early on what are they going to be like with story arcs, character customization, crafting etc, etc....?

That's an excellent point and got me thinking. With BioWare's all important "fourth pillar" they may be narrowing our character customisation options because of story arcs. Having amazing story in an mmorpg is always a headache as every player needs to feel like the plot was designed specifically for them to be believable. The way other mmorpgs have shoe-horned in that feeling is to have as few character archetype deviations as possible and fob us off with lots of different outfits or something. It's possible that Bioware's commitment to story telling may be a huge blind-spot. Which was always the worry I guess.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:16 am

You think smugglers will be a class? I doubt that. I mean i doubted bounty hunter but at least they can fight. I think han solo type of characters will be not smugglers but scoundrels. And thats a big difference.

Second thing is. Why do you perceive factions in this game as something like WoW or War? Separated by a wall without communication or interaction... just fighting. Doing a SW MMO in such a way is suicide... SW world is so much richer then that. And noone is that clear and crystal there. Both the sith empire and galactic republic are almost always far away and not to involved in peoples lives to much.

What i HOPE for is something like AoC. Sure stygians were evil and they were the only mages i the game.. and most other countries hated them BUT that didn't stop them from interacting with others, joining guilds... etc etc.

If there is no neutral faction in this game and it seems there isn't thats the only way they can stay just a bit true to the SW univese in TOR.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:33 am

Aliendra wrote:
Why do you perceive factions in this game as something like WoW or War? Separated by a wall without communication or interaction... just fighting.

Because the SWTOR splash page doesn't ask us "Under which faction would you like to be neutral and communicative?". Unfortunately. It says "Choose your Allegiance. Who will you fight for?". The bods at BioWare have been reminding us it's called "Star Wars" and the whole premise of basing the game in the timeline when they have is that Sith and Jedi are again on the very brink of plunging the galaxy into another devastating war.

This to me all suggests there will be little cross faction gaming to be had. And if you're cynical you could say it's also another way of making the curious/completeists pay for another account. I really hope I’m wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:45 am

Redwatch wrote:
Aliendra wrote:
Why do you perceive factions in this game as something like WoW or War? Separated by a wall without communication or interaction... just fighting.

Because the SWTOR splash page doesn't ask us "Under which faction would you like to be neutral and communicative?". Unfortunately. It says "Choose your Allegiance. Who will you fight for?". The bods at BioWare have been reminding us it's called "Star Wars" and the whole premise of basing the game in the timeline when they have is that Sith and Jedi are again on the very brink of plunging the galaxy into another devastating war.

This to me all suggests there will be little cross faction gaming to be had. And if you're cynical you could say it's also another way of making the curious/completeists pay for another account. I really hope I’m wrong.

"Under which faction would you like to be neutral and communicative?"- is not a good catch phrase is it? Remember. Society is stupid. Such phrases are to complicated and to long to attract the twitch based generation. And everyone wants to attract those...Sadly.

Second...I have yet to play a MMO that you have to buy a new account to play on the other side of the fence...Razz
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 7:49 am

Aliendra wrote:
You think smugglers will be a class? I doubt that. I mean i doubted bounty hunter but at least they can fight. I think han solo type of characters will be not smugglers but scoundrels. And thats a big difference.

I disagree, I think if the Bounty Hunter class has shown us anything it's that they're not going down the normal KotOR archetype route. In fact it looks as if they're heading down the typical MMO route of straight classes i.e. Jedi, Sith, Bounty Hunter rather than the loose archetypes like Scout, Scoundrel, Soldier if you see what I'm getting at? As they've said before they want to replicate the roles in the movies.

Aliendra wrote:
What i HOPE for is something like AoC. Sure stygians were evil and they were the only mages i the game.. and most other countries hated them BUT that didn't stop them from interacting with others, joining guilds... etc etc.

Yeah I totally agree, that would be the most sensible way to do it. If they don't do it this way then well....it'll suck mightly. If Age of Conan did one thing right it's this.

Redwatch wrote:
Aliendra wrote:
Why do you perceive factions in this game as something like WoW or War? Separated by a wall without communication or interaction... just fighting.

Because the SWTOR splash page doesn't ask us "Under which faction would you like to be neutral and communicative?". Unfortunately. It says "Choose your Allegiance. Who will you fight for?". The bods at BioWare have been reminding us it's called "Star Wars" and the whole premise of basing the game in the timeline when they have is that Sith and Jedi are again on the very brink of plunging the galaxy into another devastating war.

This to me all suggests there will be little cross faction gaming to be had. And if you're cynical you could say it's also another way of making the curious/completeists pay for another account. I really hope I’m wrong.

I agree Redwatch. It is looking an awful lot like it going to be heavily faction based. They've also mentioned that they're interested in the way that Mythic are handling factions and PvP in WAR.

Aliendra wrote:
Second...I have yet to play a MMO that you have to buy a new account to play on the other side of the fence.

Yeah I can't see them doing that. If anything you'll probably just have to go over to another server.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:00 am

If this game is heavily faction based like WAR and has characters as stupid as WAR i'm not playing it.

Second of all... I'm not saying they are going the KOTOR archetype way. Bounty hunter class disproves my theory altogether. But Han solo was a smuggler and/or a scoundrel... We'll see which Bioware picks but a smuggler seems a bit pointless in combat based game don't ya think?

I must say one thing. The more info i learn th less i like the game..Sad I hope they don't take allot from WAR. I mean WAR is a nice game on its own... but certainly not my type at all. Lack of everything that is connected to roleplay in WAR is staggering! If i remember correctly you couldn't even... sit! On frigin chairs! Customization was non existent to...
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Tue Mar 24, 2009 8:17 am

Aliendra wrote:
If this game is heavily faction based like WAR and has characters as stupid as WAR i'm not playing it.

Hate to say it, but I tend to feel the same way. I mean I'll play it yeah but I have to wonder how long it'll keep me interested.

Quote :
Second of all... I'm not saying they are going the KOTOR archetype way. Bounty hunter class disproves my theory altogether. But Han solo was a smuggler and/or a scoundrel... We'll see which Bioware picks but a smuggler seems a bit pointless in combat based game don't ya think?

Yeah I just used KotOR as an example. But personally I consider Scoundrel to be an archetype and Smuggler to be a class (or even a profession if you will). Another way of looking at it would be to use AoC again. Archetype=Mage, Class=Demonologist, thats the way see it anyway. As for being a pointless class I think this where this oh so important "4th. Pillar" comes in (sorry Lunarwolf!). The Smuggler story arc would no doubt be pretty interesting, depending on the player of course. As for combat, they have them in SWG so why not in TOR?

Quote :
I must say one thing. The more info i learn th less i like the game..Sad I hope they don't take allot from WAR. I mean WAR is a nice game on its own... but certainly not my type at all. Lack of everything that is connected to roleplay in WAR is staggering! If i remember correctly you couldn't even... sit! On frigin chairs! Customization was non existent to...

Yeah I have to admit things are starting to worry me now. I think Redwatch said it best when he said something along the lines of they're putting too much in the the story aspect and not paying attention to the basic game mechanics of what actually makes MMO's work in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild   Today at 2:57 pm

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Faction Specific Classes & What This Could Mean For Our Guild
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